From estephen@netcom.com Fri Jan 27 00:15:52 PST 1995 Article: 15131 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!estephen From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) Subject: Re: passwd file Message-ID: Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA References: <3fsusp$njc@cactus.texas.net> <3g30oi$185b@columba.udac.uu.se> <3g39ds$fip@uwm.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 18:35:08 GMT Lines: 20 Status: RO Alan D. Corre (corre@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu) wrote: | SysOp writes: | > ALL INFORMATION SHOULD BE FREE!!! | | Have you read Stallman's manifesto included in the Emacs software? He agrees | with you. You see? If there were an alt.manifesto, we could all have read rms' manifesto, regardless of whether or not we used Emacs. NO response yet to my proposal (q.v.) for alt.manifesto. No grudging respect; not even a clever putdown. Any response at all I would understand. But silence? I *am* disappointed. By the way, Stallman spent a summer sub-leasing my room in Berkeley a few years back. Not many know of his obsession with Crenshaw melons. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen E. Stephen Mack estephen@netcom.com A single step begins with a journey of a thousand miles. Visit Gray Mansion, a place in the WWW: http://emf.net/~estephen/gray.html From estephen@netcom.com Thu Feb 23 16:13:28 PST 1995 Article: 19143 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!estephen From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) Subject: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Message-ID: Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 05:29:49 GMT Lines: 21 Sender: estephen@netcom15.netcom.com Status: O UPDATED PROPOSAL: alt.usenet.manifesto About a month ago, discussion was proceeding regarding my proposal for alt.usenet.manifesto, a place to discuss manifestoes of all sorts, and for net.personalities to post their personal agendas. There was some support and a few objections. Three Thursdays ago, I wrote and posted three responses, to posts from David DeLaney, Melissa Algeo and Bruce Baugh. That night, Netcom swallowed its outgoing news feed. I did not discover until recently that these posts never arrived to alt.config. And I was wondering why no-one was discussing my proposal... I managed to save two of the three non-posted articles, which I will repost. I apologize for the delay, and I invite further discussion and criticism of the proposal for alt.usenet.manifesto. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen E. Stephen Mack estephen@netcom.com Update: There is now a sucker born every 2.3 seconds. From estephen@netcom.com Thu Feb 23 16:13:32 PST 1995 Article: 19148 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!estephen From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) Subject: Re: Manifesto Destiny (was Re: PROPOSAL: alt.manifesto) Message-ID: Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA References: <3gmhoa$vv@desiree.teleport.com> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 05:50:11 GMT Lines: 69 Sender: estephen@netcom15.netcom.com Status: O [This post was eaten by Netcom; it should have appeared about a month ago. Sorry for the late re-post. The proposal is now for alt.usenet.manifesto, a moderated newsgroup] Bruce Baugh (bruceab@teleport.com) intoned in response to my words: >>The proposal: alt.manifesto, a place for organizations, groups, >>businesses and individuals (especially net.personalities) to >>post their manifesto (statements of purpose, usually artistic, >>similar to mission statements). > For starters, it's a bad name. I agree. I don't have the general knowledge of alt that you do (absolutely no sarcasm intended), so I originally modelled it on groups like alt.postmodern, alt.mediation, alt.romance and many others: a general category that could be further subdivided, like all top-level groups. Melissa Algeo recommended (two days ago, so it's buried now) alt.usenet.manifesto. How would you react to that one? > Second, it's unclear to me that > there isn't already a place for it. (alt.sex.fetish.internet > comes to mind, but that's probably just me.) I agree: you're right that there is a masturbatory element to a manifesto, and the internet fetish does tie in. However, there are serious manifestoes in the usenet arena (GNU, Mosaic) and they should be discussed seriously. a.s.f.i., a low propogation group, has a widely divergent charter, if you can call it such. It doesn't have the tight focus that alt.usenet.manifesto would have; it would discourage the actual posting and discussion of manifestoes by giving away that it's all self-love-of-one's-own-typing. If there is another place that you can think of that already exists for the discussion of artistic intent, both individual and institutional, I'll begin posting manifestoes there and leave alt.config alone. > Third, it's unclear > to me that any such group except a tightly moderated one could > avoid degenerating into wankery like...well, like this piece of > e-mail [deleted] I agree. The new proposal will have alt.usenet.manifesto moderated by me. I'm sad that you receive such self-serving rubbish as your sample e-mail on a regular basis, but your point applies equally to every group in the alt hierarchy, alt.config especially. I can't believe that scavenging rip-off artists post 900 date lines on alt.support.loneliness, but they fight back there; it doesn't mean you should rm the group because of an occasional off-charter debacle. Your e-mail has nothing much to do with an artistic manifesto, proposed with heart and sincerity. Of course, there would be manifestoes such as kibo's which may be similar to that e-mail. It still deserves it's 14 days in the sun, for all to see and discuss. Further discussion? This is a busy time for alt.config and my original proposal was flippant, but I do wish to play by the rules and I'm genuinely interested in what all of you think of having a manifesto group. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen E. Stephen Mack estephen@netcom.com I'll double-cross that bridge when I come to it. From estephen@netcom.com Thu Feb 23 16:13:37 PST 1995 Article: 19149 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!estephen From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Message-ID: Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA References: Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 05:51:58 GMT Lines: 44 Sender: estephen@netcom15.netcom.com Status: O [This post should have appeared a month ago. Sorry, it was eaten by Netcom.] [Me:] >>Mostly it would be a service for you, so that you could see >>the manifestoes of new net.personalities-in-the-making. Think of it as >>fodder for net.legends and alt.kooks, as well as a place for serious >>discussions of the Communist Manifesto, the Emac's manifesto, and >>manifestoes of all kinds. David DeLaney checked in [2/4/95, almost a month ago, sorry]: >Erm - what's wrong with using alt.usenet.kooks, which has "posting manifestos >from various people who seem a bit Off" as one of its Primary Purposes >already? First off, discussions of institutional manifestoes (such as the gnu manifesto) would be off-charter in alt.usenet.kooks. Secondly, alt.usenet.kooks is high-traffic. My proposal is desirable as it creates a moderated, low-traffic, high-interest group. Furthermore, many net.personalities do not consider themselves to be kooks. I want the serious-minded ones as well as the silly ones to post their agendas. It is important that a manifesto appears in the words of the author, without the belittling that is the hallmark of alt.usenet.kooks. Finally, it seems reasonable to me that news admins, surfers and journalists interested in seeing what motivates frequent posters will seek out a group such as alt.usenet.manifesto; they would have to stumble across alt.usenet.kooks. I've lined up several people who will assist me in referring frequent posters to alt.usenet.manifesto, and I will take it upon myself to find manifestoes. I already have many essential ones, such as the CyberFeminist Manifesto and other mission statements. These postings are ready to go and will appear upon newgrouping. I'd throw in a joke or two here but I'm feeling humor-deprived today, sorry. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen E. Stephen Mack estephen@netcom.com In usenet, far too many can hear you scream. From mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Thu Feb 23 16:13:39 PST 1995 Article: 19157 of alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!ames!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mjg51721 From: mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) Newsgroups: alt.config Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Date: 22 Feb 1995 07:09:32 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3ienvc$qij@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Status: O estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) writes: >I've lined up several people who will assist me in referring frequent >posters to alt.usenet.manifesto, and I will take it upon myself to >find manifestoes. I already have many essential ones, such as the >CyberFeminist Manifesto and other mission statements. These postings >are ready to go and will appear upon newgrouping. This sounds like a terrible newsgroup, and a great WWW site. Since you've already colledted many of the manifestoes, why not put them up for ftp at netcom, or find someone willing to serve them via http? Manifestos aren't exactly NEWS; hopefully, they are pretty static. Why do you want to use a newsgroup as a library? -- Mike Gebis m-gebis@uiuc.edu Mean people suck. http://www.cen.uiuc.edu/~mg7932/mike.html From jfurr@acpub.duke.edu Thu Feb 23 16:13:42 PST 1995 Article: 19214 of alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!news.duke.edu!usenet From: jfurr@acpub.duke.edu (Joel K. Furr) Newsgroups: alt.config Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Date: 22 Feb 1995 10:36:04 -0500 Organization: USENET Central Administration Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3ifll4$b7o@news.duke.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bio3.acpub.duke.edu Status: O estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) wrote: >UPDATED PROPOSAL: alt.usenet.manifesto > >About a month ago, discussion was proceeding regarding my proposal for >alt.usenet.manifesto, a place to discuss manifestoes of all sorts, and >for net.personalities to post their personal agendas. Here's my response: "It's a lame idea and is a classic example of a nebulous, certain-to-be- unused 'if you build it they will come' newsgroup proposal." It would see virtually no traffic at all. -- Joel Furr home page From estephen@emf.emf.net Thu Feb 23 16:13:44 PST 1995 Article: 19251 of alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!emf.emf.net!estephen From: estephen@emf.emf.net (E. Stephen Mack) Newsgroups: alt.config Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Date: 22 Feb 1995 21:37:09 GMT Organization: Winter Weather through emf.net Lines: 28 Message-ID: <3igaq5$knc@emf.emf.net> References: <3ienvc$qij@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.174.162.40 Status: O Michael James Gebis argued: | This sounds like a terrible newsgroup, and a great WWW site. Since | you've already colledted many of the manifestoes, why not put them up | for ftp at netcom, or find someone willing to serve them via http? I'm already working on this as a supplement to the newsgroup. Important posts will be archived at the manifesto homepage (to be announced). Furthermore: | Manifestos aren't exactly NEWS; hopefully, they are pretty | static. Why do you want to use a newsgroup as a library? I agree: as a library, a newsgroup is useless. However, the purpose of alt.usenet.manifesto is also to DISCUSS manifestoes; speculate on the manifestoes of others, offer your own manifesto for criticism, and so forth. Since a huge part of the charter deals with Usenet personalities, it is more appropriate to create a usenet newsgroup, with (moderated) discussion, very similar to what Joel does with comp.society.folklore. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen (E. Stephen Mack) estephen@emf.net Zeigen's Dilemma Home Page: http://emf.net/~estephen/ But who are YOU to tell ME to question authority? From estephen@emf.emf.net Thu Feb 23 16:13:48 PST 1995 Article: 19252 of alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!emf.emf.net!estephen From: estephen@emf.emf.net (E. Stephen Mack) Newsgroups: alt.config Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Date: 22 Feb 1995 21:48:55 GMT Organization: Winter Weather Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3igbg7$m6c@emf.emf.net> References: <3ifll4$b7o@news.duke.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.174.162.40 Status: O Joel K. Furr liposuctioned: | Here's my response: | | "It's a lame idea and is a classic example of a nebulous, certain-to-be- | unused 'if you build it they will come' newsgroup proposal." | | It would see virtually no traffic at all. AGREE: It will be low traffic. DISAGREE: It's not a "lame" idea. I think it's a good idea; what do other people think? DISAGREE: It is an "if you build it they will come" newsgroup proposal. I do not expect too many Usenet personalities to find it on their own; instead, I will cull and steer people towards it. This make it an "if you newgroup it, I will moderate it" newsgroup proposal. I should have made it clearer that my proposal was for a moderated newsgroup; the goal is not _quantity_ but _quality_, similar to what you do with comp.society.folklore. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen (E. Stephen Mack) estephen@emf.net Zeigen's Dilemma Home Page: http://www.emf.net/~estephen/ But who are YOU to tell ME to question authority? P.S. "Lame"? How ableist of you, Joel. From estephen@netcom.com Fri Feb 24 01:24:08 PST 1995 Article: 19327 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!hilbert.dnai.com!redstone.interpath.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!estephen From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) Subject: Re: Manifesto Destiny Message-ID: Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA References: Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 06:11:17 GMT Lines: 78 Sender: estephen@netcom12.netcom.com Status: O bruceab@teleport.com (Bruce Baugh) typed: | Now then. There's soc.culture.usenet - I've never read it, so I | couldn't say, but it seems that this might be relevant. I assume you meant "alt.culture.usenet." (Most of the *.culture groups are soc.*, so my fingers almost typed that out of habit as well.) Anyway, a.c.u. is close, but: 1) It's high-traffic, largely cross-posted and mostly off-charter. In contrast, alt.usenet.manifesto would be moderated, high-interest and high-quality, low traffic. 2) It's much more about events (almost all Jake Baker right now), interfaces, news software and general discussion of the phenomenon of usenet, rather than about individuals and what drives them. 3) It does share some of the problem of alt.usenet.kooks in that it belittles the people it is discussing, thus shutting them out of the discussion and preventing them from presenting their own intentions in the first place. | [...] What I'd | like to see is a clearer definition of "manifesto"; now you seem to | be referring specifically to artistic stuff, which wasn't clear the | first time around. Sorry about the lack of clarity. Partly it's a little slippery to nail down, and partly my intentions haven't been fixed in stone. A clear definition of manifesto? That's a good question. [hauling out the trusty blue Webster's deluxe unabridged] Manifesto: a public declaration of motives and intentions by a government or by a person or group regarded as having some public importance. In usenet terms, I would say: Usenet Manifesto: a posted declaration of motives and intentions by an institution, group or individual that is regarded as having some net-wide relevance (or wishes to be so regarded). Examples: gnu manifesto, Kibo manifesto, CyberFeminist Manifesto. But I also want to allow for the general discussion of manifestoes (such as the ones that most writers and artists eventually get around to creating; and governmental manifestoes, such as the Communist Manifesto; and, hell, even corporate manifestoes, such as what Chevron's mission statement is.) | [...] With more definition, we can more readily | establish a) if there is a relevant group already and b) what to | call a new one if there isn't. a) I'm defintely open to hearing of any other existing groups, though at this point I'm pushing to have alt.usenet.manifesto moderated, so that the manifesto traffic will be undiluted by other discussions which would make the group serve a useful purpose. b) How do you like the name at this point? Melissa Alego first suggested alt.usenet.manifesto in response to my original proposal of alt.manifesto. | [...] let me say that by being courteous, you're | winning an important part of the propaganda battle. This is a Good | Thing. Keep it up. Thanks. I tend to match or exceed the level of courtesy shown to me. (If I wanted to market a desk calendar like those infernal "Rules To Live By" and "Life's Little Instruction Manual" things, I'd put this advice on every page.) __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen E. Stephen Mack estephen@netcom.com Advice for March 16, 1997: "Never forget to remember important things." From ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!usenet Fri Feb 24 01:45:45 PST 1995 Article: 64522 of alt.config Xref: netcom.com alt.config:64522 Path: netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!usenet From: jfurr@acpub.duke.edu (Joel K. Furr) Newsgroups: alt.config Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Date: 23 Feb 1995 08:59:17 -0500 Organization: USENET Central Administration Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3ii4bl$743@news.duke.edu> References: <3ifll4$b7o@news.duke.edu> <3igbg7$m6c@emf.emf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bio5.acpub.duke.edu Status: O estephen@emf.emf.net (E. Stephen Mack) wrote: > DISAGREE: It is an "if you build it they will come" newsgroup proposal. > I do not expect too many Usenet personalities to find it on > their own; instead, I will cull and steer people towards it. > This make it an "if you newgroup it, I will moderate it" > newsgroup proposal. Sorry, no. This is exactly what people like Jorn Barger said about groups like 'alt.best.thoughtful' ... that with a little effort, people would be taught to use the group and it would see all this wonderful traffic, etc. etc. ad nauseam. This is *not* a good idea for a newsgroup at all. *I* don't even understand what you're trying to achieve here, and I've *read* your posts. Set up a WWW page and/or a mailing list. A newsgroup for as badly-defined a proposal as this would be quite pointless. -- Joel Furr home page From jrest Fri Feb 24 01:45:50 PST 1995 Article: 64549 of alt.config Xref: netcom.com alt.config:64549 Newsgroups: alt.config Path: netcom.com!jrest From: jrest@netcom.com (John Restrick) Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <3ifll4$b7o@news.duke.edu> <3igbg7$m6c@emf.emf.net> <3ii4bl$743@news.duke.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 19:51:01 GMT Lines: 19 Sender: jrest@netcom11.netcom.com Status: O In article <3ii4bl$743@news.duke.edu>, Joel K. Furr wrote: >Sorry, no. This is exactly what people like Jorn Barger said about groups >like 'alt.best.thoughtful' ... that with a little effort, people would be >taught to use the group and it would see all this wonderful traffic, etc. >etc. ad nauseam. I personally am very interested in seeing this group created (along with a Web page). I don't think it is that confusing an idea. Initially some manifestos will be posted, and others will post their ideas in response. The moderator will keep things on topic, and he along with others will post manifestos of their own, or that they come across. The group will also be open to discussion of manifestos in general, and the posting of implicit manifestos (for example someone could post what they think Microsofts Manifesto must be). John Restrick jrest@netcom.com From algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Fri Feb 24 11:45:11 PST 1995 Article: 19345 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!news.ossi.com!news.fujitsu.com!amdahl.com!pacbell.com!att-out!oucsboss!ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu!ALGEO From: algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu (the virtual valkyrie) Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Message-ID: Sender: postmaster@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Reply-To: algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Organization: Ohio University Computing & Technology Services References: <3ienvc$qij@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,<3igaq5$knc@emf.emf.net> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:22:45 GMT Lines: 17 It sounds like you've thought this out pretty well. I'm still afraid that this group would see little if any traffic, but if you're determined to try it I wish you luck. Just one minor point . . . I believe alt.usenet.manifestos makes more sense than alt.usenet.manifesto. The singular sounds like you want to use the group to write a single manifesto for all of usenet, a la alt.galactic-guide. If you need precedent for plurals in newsgroup names, there's alt.fan.lemurs, rec.pets.dogs.breeds, and soc.singles. -- Melissa Anne Algeo algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu GO d H++(?) s-: !g p4 au+ a- w+ v++ C+++>++++ aa575@seorf.ohiou.edu U++ !P L+ 3 N+++ E+ K++ W-- (---) M-- V- -po+ Y+ algeo@monolith.mit.edu t(+) 5 R G' tv b+++$ D-- B-- e+++ u++ f r n+ x? From jpatters@mole.uvm.edu Tue Feb 28 23:46:30 PST 1995 Article: 19772 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp.et.byu.edu!cwis.isu.edu!news.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!emba-news.uvm.edu!mole.uvm.edu!jpatters From: jpatters@mole.uvm.edu (Jake Patterson) Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Message-ID: <1995Feb27.172744.26687@emba.uvm.edu> Sender: news@emba.uvm.edu Organization: EMBA Computer Facility, University of Vermont X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <3ienvc$qij@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,<3igaq5$knc@emf.emf.net> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 17:27:44 GMT Approved: jpatters@mole.uvm.edu Lines: 20 Status: R the virtual valkyrie (algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu) wrote: > It sounds like you've thought this out pretty well. I'm still > afraid that this group would see little if any traffic, but > if you're determined to try it I wish you luck. > Just one minor point . . . I believe alt.usenet.manifestos makes > more sense than alt.usenet.manifesto. The singular sounds like > you want to use the group to write a single manifesto for all > of usenet, a la alt.galactic-guide. If you need precedent for > plurals in newsgroup names, there's alt.fan.lemurs, > rec.pets.dogs.breeds, and soc.singles. I agree. I would like to see this group created. __ Yet another Yet another Yet another Yet another Yet another lame (TM) lame (TM) lame (TM) lame (TM) lame (TM) l 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig -This .sig and the post preceding it brought to you by jpatters@mole.uvm.edu- From estephen@netcom.com Tue Feb 28 23:46:40 PST 1995 Article: 19876 of alt.config Newsgroups: alt.config Path: emf.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!estephen From: estephen@netcom.com (E. Stephen Mack) Subject: Re: Re-open for discussion: alt.usenet.manifesto Message-ID: Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA References: <3igaq5$knc@emf.emf.net> <1995Feb27.172744.26687@emba.uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 02:09:41 GMT Lines: 34 Sender: estephen@netcom19.netcom.com Status: R Melissa Algeo, the Virtual Valkyrie (algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu) wrote: > It sounds like you've thought this out pretty well. I'm still > afraid that this group would see little if any traffic, but > if you're determined to try it I wish you luck. Well, it will be high quality traffic at least. Thanks for the good wishes; hope to see your own manifesto there... > Just one minor point . . . I believe alt.usenet.manifestos makes > more sense than alt.usenet.manifesto. The singular sounds like > you want to use the group to write a single manifesto for all > of usenet, a la alt.galactic-guide. If you need precedent for > plurals in newsgroup names, there's alt.fan.lemurs, > rec.pets.dogs.breeds, and soc.singles. After discussion with Team Manifesto, we agree. Thanks for your advice and Bruce Baugh as well; I enjoyed this whole process. I'm going to twist the arm of a well-known netcom newgrouper on Joel's approved list to do the newgroup, unless Joel or others come up with some objections. The newgroup will be for alt.usenet.manifestoes, moderated by estephen@emf.net. Look for it around Wednesday. Lately, all the posts have been positive, such as from jpatters@mole.uvm.edu (Jake Patterson), who wrote: | I agree. I would like to see this group created. Thanks for the support, Jake. Wheeeeee! __________________________________________________________________________ --Zeigen (E. Stephen Mack) estephen@emf.net Ex-junkie, born again, didn't have a clue. -- Ajax From csus.edu!decwrl!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgiblab!swrinde!gatech!emf.emf.net!emf.emf.net!estephen Wed Jun 7 00:44:05 PDT 1995 Article: 76148 of alt.config Xref: netcom.com alt.config:76148 Path: netcom.com!csus.edu!decwrl!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgiblab!swrinde!gatech!emf.emf.net!emf.emf.net!estephen From: estephen@emf.emf.net (E. Stephen Mack) Newsgroups: alt.config Subject: Re: cmsg newgroup alt.usenet.manifestoes Date: 1 Jun 1995 00:31:38 GMT Organization: Winter Weather, Berkeley, CA Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3qj1pa$a6p@emf.emf.net> References: <801716202snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.149.0.20 Brian Hamilton Kelly noticed Alistair James Robert Young's very kind booster-newgroup of alt.usenet.manifestoes and opined: | I hate to piss on your chips, but the dictionaries tend to favour the | spelling "manifestos" over that with the "e" (although the latter is | admittedly not compeltely wrong: but it sure looks ugly). *sigh* A purely personal aesthetic preference, I admit. I consulted three dictionaries before deciding that I liked "manifestoes" over "manifestos." (Every dictionary I consulted said they were equally acceptable; I admit this is more likely with descriptive American dictionaries than prescriptive English ones.) Manifestos, to me, seems like it should be pronounced [cs] (where [c] represents the backwards-c IPA symbol for the low "aw" sound in a New Yorker's "dog"). This is on pattern with such words as Amos, asbestos, bathos, BIOS, chaos, and hundreds of other words. Manifestoes is on pattern with does, antiheroes, mistletoes, mosquitoes, tiptoes, grottoes. You may not like the extra "e" but it removes any ambiguity of pronunciation. Besides, chum, at least it's not "compeltely" wrong. __________________________________________________________________________ -- Zeigen (E. Stephen Mack) estephen@emf.net Zeigen's Dilemma Home Page: http://www.emf.net/~estephen/ Spelling flame? ME? Never...